Talk:Indian English

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 22 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Malnarula.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Source of the anomalies

Does anyone have any information on where the "anomalies" in Indian English grammars listed (the use of the progressive in static verbs, for example) came from? Did they develop somewhat arbitrarily simply as language drift, or do they mirror grammatical forms in other (non-English) Indian language and were imported from there into English? --Delirium 20:41, May 23, 2004 (UTC)

Grammar Structure in Hindi differs from English. It's kinda like French. For instance, when I was learning French, I would formulate a sentence in English(since English is my strongest language), and then convert it to French (or vice-versa). This often had disastrous effects. Take the phrase Je Vous Remercie, which literally translates as I You Thank. If "I You Thank" is not considered French English, I don't see why similar structural mistakes are included in Indian English. More often than not, these "anomalies" are actually just bad English spoken by non-native speakers of the language. I hypothesize mostly from personal experience, but I intend to get some professional views on this phenomenon soon.--LuciferBlack 05:06, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)

Usages are accepted in a dialect if enough people communicate with them and accept them. If there were a community of people who were used to saying "I you thank," that would be considered part of the dialect. If we're accepting that Indian English is a dialect that has grown separately from British English and American English, then there are going to be anomalies in grammar. Thirdreel 13:53, 16 Aug 2004 ()

Include canonical phrases / words

WRT the back and forth edits between LSofS and Rj, I have a suggestion to make. Why don't you just include canonical phrases/ words that have been used in advertisements, other media, etc.,?

I disagree with LSofS on the one letter difference- in fact saloon is a very interesting word and is not similar to the colour/ color conventions or other conventions such as s/z or c/s that are standardised in many words. I was not aware of the salon/ saloon connection - maybe there is an interesting etymology to it too, it is worthy enough to be included! In daily life in India, at least in Tamilnadu, in every small town and maybe even in village, a saloon refers to a "barber shop" frequented only by "gents"(that's another Indianism) KRS 18:17, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately, Rj misinformed regarding saloon as referring to salon. If it means what you're talking about, then it has a well-established Euro-American precident in "saloon," a congregatory hall, frequently for men, in which drinks and such would be served (see cowbow westerns). Also, "gents" is not an Indianism, in the sense that it was not coined by Indians. It's a known contraction all over the world. --LordSuryaofShropshire 18:40, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)

Salon is not only misspelt in Tamil Nadu, it is also misspelt in Kerala and Bangalore (I have witnessed that). Only very few women salon, correctly spelt that. A google search suggests [1], the word is misspelt even in Jaipur, Mumbai and many other places in India. --Rrjanbiah 11:37, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

It's not misspelt, we've already determined this. It is referring to the Euro-American saloon. Look up a dictionary.--LordSuryaofShropshire 16:17, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Saloon http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=saloon 1. barroom, bar, saloon, ginmill, taproom -- (a room or establishment where alcoholic drinks are served over a counter; "he drowned his sorrows in whiskey at the bar") 2. public house, pub, saloon, pothouse, gin mill, taphouse -- (tavern consisting of a building with a bar and public rooms; often provides light meals)

Salon http://www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn2.0?stage=1&word=salon 1. salon -- (gallery where works of art can be displayed) 2. salon, beauty salon, beauty parlor, beauty parlour, beauty shop -- (a shop where hairdressers and beauticians work) 3. salon -- (elegant sitting room where guests are received)

In Indian English, Saloon means beauty salon (Salon) [2]

--Rrjanbiah 05:15, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I agree with you Rrjanbiah, I also wanted to cite references- saloon in the Western context has no relation to saloon in the Indian context, the Indian context saloon has to be the Western context salon KRS 06:28, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I think, the right place to discuss about this issue is a.e.u. I have some doubts in English especially "How do you do?" and "Saloon"; I'll post there sometimes later (as I'm bit busy now) and will update here. --Rrjanbiah 07:59, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The term "co-brother"

The term "co-brother" is not understood even by most of the Indians. It cannot be included in Indian English. Telugu people use the word "co-brother-in-law" instead of it. Even the use of the term "co-brother-in-law" is incorrect method while translating Telugu words to English. In Telugu, sons-in-law of a common father-in-law are called as todallullu. In Telugu, the word todalludu means companion of son-in-law. It is incorrect to use those words such as co-brother and co-brother-in-law while translating Telugu kinship terms to English.

Differences in the English Language Throughout Asia

Cell phone or handphone? SMS or text? I've posted a brief intro about the differences in terms used for every day things in Asia in my blog at www.ux.com.sg. I would like to expand on the list and to do that I will need contributions from as many people as possible. Please do help me out by sharing your valuable insights. Thank you :)

Request Indian English assistance

Greetings,

I am a published author working on my second novel. There is a brief scene featuring a character speaking English with an Indian accent. I have been using the wikipedia entry on "Indian English" to help me write this section phonetically and idiomatically, but i'm sure I am making numerous naive and inaccurate representations. Would the author of that entry or anyone else on this board be willing to take a look at the short section and provide feedback? It's about 6 sentences long.

Thank you for your time. You can reach me at juxtapozbliss@yahoo.com.

Unique phrases again

I've just removed the following. While in England, it may not be common to use place names as an addendum to university names, it is quite common in the U.S. and Australia (perhaps because of sheer size of the countries, branch campuses develop). Anyway if anyone has a problem w/ this, the original text is here.

• "Placenames appended as part of a formal organisation name: Indian Institute of Management Ahmedabad instead of Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad; possibly because a similar Indian Institute of Management is probably in another location and to differentiate between these, a location name has to be added, unlike in the case of University of Manchester or Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This appears to be common usage."

Additional Phrases Unique to Indian-English

• clubbing-together (consolidating, grouping)
• cousin-brother (male cousin)
• cousin-sister (female cousin)
• today morning (this morning)
• the needful ("necessary, "what's needed" - uncommon in Am. Eng. I had never heard in 50+ yrs as native speaker) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChinaChuck (talk • contribs) 17:34, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

My Indian-born doctor (GP) in Australia always asks specialists, in his referral letters, to "please do the needful". yoyo (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Pedestrian overpass

When I encounter an article with {{Use Indian English}}, should I use the term "over bridge," "foot over bridge," "footover bridge," or what? Rhadow (talk) 16:20, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Baton charge

When I encounter an article with {{Use Indian English}}, should I use the term "lathicharge," "lathi-charge," "lathi charge," or what? Rhadow (talk) 11:57, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

I've seen "lathi-charge" in an Indian news article. Also, note that the commas in Rhadow's list should appear outside the double quotes in British, Australian and Indian English; thus: "lathicharge", "lathi-charge", "lathi charge", or what? (The last comma in a list is optional). yoyo (talk) 04:16, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Number of English speaking people in India

The article says:

Native speakers	250,000 (2022) L2 speakers: 200 million L3 speakers: 46 million 246 million total speakers (2022)

There are three sources given for 250,000 native speakers - all of them give an error.

Furthermore the article says there are 200 million second language speakers in India with no source given. The census of 2011 gives 83 million people for English as a second language (see https://www.livemint.com/news/india/in-india-who-speaks-in-english-and-where-1557814101428.html , but we can also take the census report itself).

I suggest we change to that number, if we do not find a reliable source for higher numbers. --Lu Wunsch-Rolshoven (talk) 15:57, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Initial /r/ as affricate or fricative

I recently watched an Indian movie primarily in English, and couldn't help noticing utterance-initial /r/ was frequently realized as what sounded to me like an affricate, [d͡ɻ̝]. I heard "jite" only to realize it was "right", and so on. They may have been [r̝] or [ʐ], but at any rate a sound with frication. "Rather" here also sounds to me like an obstruent. It was so prominent I'm surprised to find no discussion of it in this article, or anywhere for that matter. Was I mistaken? Are there sources for it? Nardog (talk) 14:39, 22 December 2024 (UTC)