Talk:University of Oxford
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University of Oxford was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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2nd to 3rd oldest university in the world
[edit]In the world, it's third. People need to remember the period that the University of al-Qarawiyyin spent as a madrasa that handed out internationally recognized diplomas and doctorates for a millennium before getting the name "state university". --Dashboard breaker (talk) 22:42, 2 September 2022 (UTC)
- See the extensive discussions of this point at List of oldest universities in continuous operation, the associated talk page, and the talk page archives. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 07:48, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
- Guiness book of records places Moroccan former madrasa as world's oldest educational establishment. Dashboard breaker (talk) 18:27, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- See the extensive discussions of this point at List of oldest universities in continuous operation, the associated talk page, and the talk page archives. Guiness is not a reliable source for the history of universities. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 18:52, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- Just to note that Dashboard breaker has now been indefinitely blocked by Widr for long term abuse. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 21:11, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
- Guiness book of records places Moroccan former madrasa as world's oldest educational establishment. Dashboard breaker (talk) 18:27, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 25 November 2022
[edit]This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
"The two English ancient universities share many common features, are jointly referred to as Oxbridge."
Grammatical error: A 'which' is missing after 'ancient universities'. Meilxn (talk) 16:43, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
- Meilxn, thank you for the suggestion, the sentence previously had an and after 'features', so I have added it back. TSventon (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
GA Reassessment
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • • GAN review not found
- Result: Delist - Article lacks significant citations. @Onegreatjoke, the way people reflect that discussions are not a vote on Wikipedia, is to say something like "I !vote delist". —Femke 🐦 (talk) 08:50, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
This 2007-listed, level 4 vital article lacks significant numbers of citations. I have tagged over 30 locations, but more may still be there. Without significant improvement, the article should be delisted as failing GA criterion 2. As this is a vital article, with a huge number of reliable sources written about it, I do not think that it will be too much work. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 00:10, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delist Doesn't seem like anyone is going out of their way too fix the article from the ground up so I vote to delist. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:14, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
Endowment
[edit]EmyRussell, thank you for updating the article, however I disagree with this edit, which changes the University (consolidated) endowment from £1,701.7M to £1,259.1M. I believe that the expendable endowment of £442.6M is also part of the endowment. TSventon (talk) 14:40, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- TSventon, apologies, I incorrectly mistook the expendable reserves figure for the restricted reserves figure. I agree that for Oxford, the endowment figure is made up of both the permanent and expendable components. EmyRussell (talk) 23:54, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- After revieweing Charity reserves: building resilience from the Charity Commission for England and Wales I agree with this interpretation. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:00, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
Coordinate error
[edit]{{geodata-check}}
The following coordinate fixes are needed for
—2409:4088:BEBC:FF61:0:0:C34A:8302 (talk) 05:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Can you expand on this? It makes no sense to me. Bduke (talk) 06:35, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- You haven't said what you think is wrong with the coordinates in the article, and they appear to be correct. If you still think that there is an error, you'll need to supply a clear explanation of what it is. Deor (talk) 22:43, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
Add Affiliation to Golden Triangle in Lede?
[edit]As Oxford is a member of the Golden triangle (universities), what about adding this in the lede? The golden triangle is the equivalent of the US Ivy League and all 8 Ivy League unis have it mentioned in their article ledes in the very first sentence. Thus, it would be only logical for the 6 golden triangle unis in the UK to have the golden triangle affiliation mentioned in their article ledes too. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:91F:8980:F29D:133A (talk) 15:51, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- It's not the equivalent of the US Ivy League. There is no defined membership and no formal structure. It's a handy shorthand for referring to universities in London, Oxford and Cambridge, but can mean anywhere between four institutions and all the institutions in those cities. It is certainly not a defining characteristic of Oxford in the same way membership is for the Ivy League (it's arguably more important for the London universities as they get to be associated with Oxford and Cambridge) and while it could be mentioned it shouldn't be in the first sentence but in a later paragraph along with actual formal accusations (which aren't currently mentioned either outside of the infobox). Robminchin (talk) 22:00, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- For what it's worth, I would say that Oxbridge is an English equivalent of the Ivy league. At present
- Imperial doesn't mention the Golden triangle
- Oxford and Cambridge mention it, but not in the lede
- UCL, KCL and LSE mention it in the lede. TSventon (talk) 22:32, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
- Seeing @Robminchin's vehemence against the discussion on the golden triangle here, I think it's sour grapes from @Robminchin because he went to Durham University which, while quite prestigious, is not part of the golden triangle. Probably best to ignore his input on this subject due to his possible COI in this case. @TSventon I agree with you that Oxbridge has some of the characteristics of being equivalent to the Ivy League. However, the caveat I would have here would be the question whether merely 2 unis would make a "group" of elite universities. That's why I would say the golden triangle would probably be more of a fit. To @Robminchin's points: obviously, the golden triangle is not a sports league like the Ivy Leauge, with formal membership. The point is the golden triangle is equivalent to the Ivy League when seen as a group of elite universities. And while different sources mention different views on who belongs to that elite group in the case of the golden triangle, the common consensus is that 6 universities make up that group which are clearly defined in the "Members" section within the golden triangle wiki article. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:C55E:82AE:A731:C495 (talk) 00:05, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- That's an WP:ADHOMINEM – the idea that someone has a COI because they *don't* have an association with the subject of the article is complete nonsense. Please stick to the content under discussion in future.
- I agree with TSventon that Oxbridge is closer to the English equivalent of the Ivy League (or Harvard–Yale–Princeton at any rate). Putting the golden triangle in the first sentence in the same way as the Ivy League would absolutely be WP:UNDUE – it simply isn't that important a characteristic of Oxford. It's notable that of the six 'typical' members, both of the institutions who are not always considered to be members ention it in the lead, while only one of the four that are consistently considered part of the triangle does so. There are more important actual memberships of groups that Oxford has chosen to participate in that are not mentioned in the lead – if these were too be added to the lead then it would be reasonable to mention that Oxford is considered to be a member of the golden triangle alongside them. Robminchin (talk) 01:54, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Robminchin, I have examined a bit your profile and your editing pattern on the golden triangle and issues related to it. In the golden triangle article, you have fought tooth and nail to keep the specific members of the golden triangle in the lede obscure although the 6 members are clearly defined and visible throughout the entire article, in each and every single section, even with grids and charts. You have opposed any suggestions there to clarify the lede or to shift the potential controversy of specific members into a separate "controversy" section there. You went to Durham and you got a PhD from Cardiff. These are respectable universities and respectable personal achievements from you. There is no need for you to feel envy, jealousy or sour grapes regarding the 6 golden triangle universities. I am wondering whether or not to interpret your venting and ranting on any sort of clarification of the golden triangle as trolling and whether I should further address you and your points or not as per WP:DFTT or WP:TROLLFOOD. Nevertheless, I am going to dedicate again my precious time to you and your points: you haven't offered an objective reason with objective criteria on why not to include the golden triangle affiliation in the first sentence of the lede of the 6 member universities - as is the case with the with the 8 Ivy League universities in the US. You state, quote: "it simply isn't that important of a characteristic of Oxford". I understand that these may be your personal feelings and your subjective findings. Unfortunately, this is not an objective reason. You yourself stated shortly thereafter that the golden triangle affiliation is already in the lede of some of the 6 member universities. You also consistently insisted that in your opinion, the UK golden triangle may not be seen as an equivalent of the US Ivy League. Please note that within the "See also" section in the golden triangle article, the Ivy League article is the first equivalent cited. Lastly: of course someone may have a COI because they don't have a direct association but a contrary relationship with a subject; various examples of such constellations come to mind: a criminal writing on law enforcement articles, a tory editing on labour topics (or vice versa obviously), an employee of a company who edits on the competitor (e.g. Coca-Cola employee editing Wiki article of Pepsi) etc. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:C42E:67D0:AF09:2C76 (talk) 08:01, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no such "thing" as the Golden triangle: there is nothing to be a member of or affiliated with. So no. And the IP accusations above are simply ridiculous. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:09, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- @Jonathan A Jones: on your point that there is "no such "thing" as the golden triangle": while I agree with you that the golden triangle is somewhat of a nebulous and abstract concept, there is, irrefutably, a Wikipedia article about it - and quite an extensive one actually. So, there is "such a thing", the golden triangle does exist. 2A02:1210:2C5A:AE00:C42E:67D0:AF09:2C76 (talk) 08:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
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